Sneaky Sucker Spawn

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chemicalpotential
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Sneaky Sucker Spawn
<p>Spring has sprung here in Tennessee!&nbsp; ...and I&#39;d like to catch the sucker spawn this year.&nbsp;&nbsp; I kept waiting to see spawning fish last year but I never saw anything.&nbsp;&nbsp; I either started looking too late...or I was looking in the wrong places.&nbsp; The largest populations of suckers and redhorse around here is in the Holston River.&nbsp; I know there are golden, black, and shorthead redhorse....and probably a couple other species.&nbsp;</p> <p>Most of the flow is a tailwater and is therefore very cold year-round.&nbsp; The water warms enough a few miles downstream&nbsp; to stop being trout water and you being to see smallmouth and suckers.&nbsp; Right now, water in this zone is just hitting 50F.&nbsp; I know this because I have the great fortune of working at a chemical plant located on the river and I have a temperature probe measuring river water temperature.&nbsp; I have real time data that goes back years!&nbsp;&nbsp; Another complication is the variable generation schedule.&nbsp; The flow varies greatly from a nice low level you can wade to a raging torrent that is barely fishable from a jet boat.&nbsp; There are also a couple feeder creeks in the area but I&#39;ve never noticed many suckers in these.&nbsp;</p> <p>Any tips or ideas for not missing the spawn?</p>
Dr Flathead
Dr Flathead's picture
The run or spawn isn't always

The run or spawn isn't always easy to spot actually happening.  My best advice would be to put your time in fishing.  Spend less time looking and more time soaking crawlers on bottom rigs.  Trial and error are the best way in my opinion to figure out a target species.  Find yourself a good riffle and fish the areas around it where you cant see the bottom.  One thing I've found over the years is a sucker is always a sucker for a plump nightcrawler.  They cant resist them.  Its like a fishes version of crack cocaine.

chemicalpotential
chemicalpotential's picture
I hate to admit it but you're

I hate to admit it but you're probably 100% right.  I've never liked to let bait soak...I just don't have the patience for it.  This flaw has no doubt contributed to my high level of frustration with suckers...and my very limited level of sucess.  To date I've only caught a few fish while sightfishing.

GeluNumber1
GeluNumber1's picture
If you can use two or more lines...

Tie on a castable lure on one line while you let your bait soak for sucker. It'll keepy uo from getting antsy while you wait for a sucker.

All fish are beautiful.

TonyS
TonyS's picture
driftin meat

Or you could actively drift worms across the bottom, most days this is less productive for suckers but it still catches them and is more active.  And some days it actually does out-produce static fishing for suckers (for me at least).  especially worth trying as an extra line if legal in your area (probably is since you aren't in MN...)

kernel j
Aww, soakin' sux

 

Chemical P laments...

 

I've never liked to let bait soak...I just don't have the patience for it. 

Yeah?  Me neither, at least for suckers and I don’t think it’s all that effective to have such patience in the streams I fish.  Dude asked a question about sucker rods awhile back and I gave a (fairy long) ramble on how and why I do it impatiently, yet quite effectively.  Here’s the link, it’s on the second page of this forum if the click doesn’t work.

http://www.roughfish.com/content/sucker-rods

 

Having looked at your blog, it certainly appears you frequent smaller water where active techniques would pay off nicely.  Soaking bait is great for bank fishing big rivers, in smaller waters it’s twice the fun to wade in and meet ‘em halfway.  You don’t need to “forkstick it” with these fish as much as some do, sometimes you’ll do better holding the rod and covering the water more.  Hell, it’s obviously in your nature and angling style so fish actively for them.  You'll learn how they gather, reassemble, and move through the water while feeding and these observations will clue you in as to where the bait should be and hook-ups will follow reliably.

 

Suckers, while not as aggressive as bass and trout, are nicely predictable in location and movements in a given stretch.  Start observing, then fish where they will be.   

Dr Flathead
Dr Flathead's picture
Mobile fishing sometimes resu

Mobile fishing sometimes results in more smallmouth or trout in my experience.  Especially if the river has a high population of them.  A rolling crawler is like a t-bone steak to those pesky gamefish.  Not saying you dont catch them on bottom rigs often.  Just not as often.  At least here in Minnesota.  Maybe its different in TN or where ever the good ole Kernal is from.  Maybe we just have more redhorse and suckers than y'all.  Or maybe I'm just partial to fork sticking it.  All I know is that bank fishing a bottom rig with crawlers almost anywhere here on a river, stream or favorite crick will almost always yeild some type of suckermouthed critter.  Usually good numbers of them too.  And its a good way to relax and take in the scenery.   Slow down.  Let the bass arm tennis elbow casting injury rest some.   Haha!

kernel j
 Doc postulated... Maybe its

 Doc postulated...

Maybe its different in TN or where ever the good ole Kernal is from.  Maybe we just have more redhorse and suckers than y'all.  Or maybe I'm just partial to fork sticking it.  

I’m in Indiana, Chemical Potential is TN, and I think your “maybes” allude to some profound truths with regard to sucker fishing across various regions.  Your MN trout waters are probably the pinnacle of sucker fisheries in terms of habitat, numbers, and size.  Might be why sucker fishing tends to be more popular and successful up there in general, straightforward rigs and static bait placement obviously works quite well in the northern trout streams and rivers with minimal bycatch of unintended species.   

 

Start moving southward and things can change quite a bit for decently effective sucker fishing, a stationary crawler in an Indiana creek pool or riffle puts you about 5 minutes away from saying “Hello Kitty”.  Or carp and drums if they get to it before the mid-large size micros while the Silver chub population of the middle Wabash makes blind fishing for suckers an exercise in futility most of the time.  

 

About the only way to primarily target suckers successfully many of my waters is to go predictive on their movements and present to them mainly in areas without interference from other species.  It’s a strange fishing pattern and darn near the opposite of what you have to do up there to avoid disproportionate bycatch.  Cool thing about it is it allows for light tackle sucker fun while all but eliminating potential for 12 lb carp incidentals or overly large channel cats.  A fun hogsucker rod is not so fun on truly big fish, been there many times and strategize to avoid it when possible.

 

This is a good conversation to explore considering how frequently “How do you catch suckers?” questions pop-up on this forum.  I’d say some type of bottom fished crawler is one of the most popular angling forms on most rivers in Indiana, yet few ever refer to it as sucker fishing largely due to lack of suckers caught relative other species.  Oddly, the sucker population in front of them often takes top spots in DNR surveys by biomass and numbers as far as catchable sized fish.  Granted, the populations are not like that of MN, but they're still way up there in most any waters and largely unbothered by angling efforts.

 

IIRC, wasn’t it Mike B up in the permafrost who found big Whites that don’t take crawlers but are easily catchable on drifted nymphs and flytackle?  There’s an interesting twist on things and something I’d never have imagined, nothing you or I do with crawlers would be worth a shit in those waters.  Go figure.

 
Dr Flathead
Dr Flathead's picture
Bet a great time to target su

Bet a great time to target suckers and redhorse in middle america would be during the winter.  Around here we could catch them all winter long if the ice didnt cut us off.  I've done well during the dead of winter during mild spells when shit actually opens up for a minute.  And that time of year there is no bycatch.  Nothing really bites except the targets, suckers and redhorse.  Around here the common bycatch is Smallmouth Bass, Drum and Chubs.  After April comes to an end these lesser that desirable species take hold of the crawler bite on most good redhorse waters.  Luckily we have found one place void of drum, dink channels and chubs.  You can catch dandy suckers and reds all summer long.  I feel really lucky to have this resource within an hours drive from my place. You still deal with pesky smallmouths, but on a lesser scale.  Its really a one of a kind fishery.  Best of luck to you down there in Tennessee.  Hope you find what your looking for. 

TonyS
TonyS's picture
Cold water

Is definitely a good idea too.  Even on rivers crammed with Drum my winter catch is mostly Suckers with a side of Sturgeon and Walleye.  Channel Cats, Bass, and Carp are reduced at this time too.  Trout would still be active.  

 

Of course, every water body is a little different.  I agree that even in MN/WI some rivers are much easier to catch Redhorse in than others.  Even when some of those tough waters have decent numbers.  

Other experiments I've had some success with:

  • fast, structureless (no breaks) runs - fewer bass, trout, and chubs in those areas but suckers still use them
  • sight fishing - this is condition dependent of course, but selecting your target can be damn near essential in some conditions.  heck Quillbacks are the most abundant fish in most the rivers in these parts and people very rarely catch them.  The only thing that works semi-consistently is sight fishing.   The biggest thing there is finding a spot that is target rich.  But I truly believe this is the easiest way to catch tough fish

I've also experimented with feeder fishing but the results have been lackluster for me.

 

All that said, different areas/rivers/spots are different.  Like Kernel pointed out, Mike B has his best success with flies.  Here in MN/WI flies work but the success rate will be extremely low compared to live bait.  

chemicalpotential
chemicalpotential's picture
Thanks for the thoughts fella

Thanks for the thoughts fellas,  I have had my only success when wading mid-stream and sight fishing.  The biggest reason I was forced into this was to keep the bait away from sunfish and smallmouth.  Around here you have to get into cold trout water to get away from bluegill and red breasts.

I also getting to be rather convinced that sucker fishing down here is nothing like the upper midwest.   On Friday I was trout fishing on a bigger river and saw dozens of nice sized suckers hanging close to the bank near some logs.  Most fish were just hanging in the current but a good number looked to be feeding out in deeper water.  They were as thick as I've ever seen them anywhere.  I put down the fly rod, ran to the nearest gas station and bought some night crawlers.  I had a spinning rod with me so I ran back to the river to soak some crawlers.  As the sun fell behind the mountain the fish seemed to get more active but I spent over an hour with not a single bite!   I can't think of a better scenario but I still got skunked. 

Dr Flathead
Dr Flathead's picture
I'd just keep at it.  Could h

I'd just keep at it.  Could have been a group of Spotted Suckers.  Their known to be pretty tight lipped.  And their a very common sucker species in the mid-south.  Another thing to add.  Suckers tend to be most active during the mid day, like the 10-2 timeframe.  I'd concentrate when the sun is high in the sky.  And give it a couple few hours if you can.  Sometimes different angles of presentation are key as well.  Trial and error man.  Its why I like multi species angling so much.  Its like a puzzle trying to figure fish out.  But its a great feeling when you finally do.

Corey
Corey's picture
Sneaky Suckers

Couple of things could be going on.

First, who knows what species they were or what they were feeding on. Could be they eat snails or something down there; up here they slam worms like crazy but that doesn't mean that works everywhere. We always assume a worm will work but it's possible that they were feeding selectively on something we haven't thought of. Maybe something tiny, like tubifex worms, algae, or midge larvae. Who knows; this is a tailwater and I have zero experience with any tailwater fishery. Tailwater trout sure have weird and different habitats than wildstream trout, so its probably a good bet that tailwater suckers are different from wildstream suckers. Yeah I just made up the word "wildstream". I mean non-tailwater streams.

Second, could be that they bit but you couldn't detect the bites. In cold water, I often am forced to set my rod down on a rodholder and wait for a tiny, one-quarter inch rod tip movement which indicates a sucker bite. That's impossible to detect if you're holding the rod or if there is any slack in the line. If you don't have your rod propped on a stick you might as well not be fishing because you won't detect a bite. Might be a half-hour between bites, too. That's some serious fishing, it takes concentration.

Third, they could be inactive. Suckers have a way of doing this and it can be very frustrating. You can see them, seems like you should be able to catch them, right? Lots of times, you just can't. Who knows why. You might run into this in both cold and warm conditions. Bunch of big fish that won't bite. Then you come back a few days later and they're biting like crazy. I suppose all fish can be this way, but with suckers it's worse because a lot of the time you can see them.

Anyway, consider yourself lucky as you've got a genuine challenge to tackle there! Sounds like some experimentation is in order.

 

chemicalpotential
chemicalpotential's picture
Thanks Corey, you might be on

Thanks Corey, you might be onto something about the tailwater environment.  There are definately a lot of aquatic nymphs in this river but the trout here are notorious for being picky eaters.  I have also had suckers snub me in much the same way in small warm water streams nearby.  I could see them plotting along the bottom, then just pass right over my worm...over and over and over!  I tried a few other types of baits but I've yet to find a golden bullet.  As frustrating as it is, I suppose the chase is a good bit of fun.  These are definately the most difficult quary I've ever pursued.