Question about Saltwater and micro forum section

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Jknuth
Jknuth's picture
Question about Saltwater and micro forum section
<p>I just saw the new rules for the lifelists (I think its a good call) It should make life much simpler in the future.&nbsp;<br /> I did have a question about the Saltwater and Micro forum sections? Are they going to remain or go? and is it ok to put up reports in those sections if they are relevent?&nbsp;<br /> &nbsp;</p>
Corey
Corey's picture
Yes

We're just not going to enforcde these rules on the saltwater and micro lifelists.

Corey
Corey's picture
Good question

I just know Andy and can't handle all that personally.  We maybe can be the final deciders if necessary, but we can't be expected to know enough about every species in the world to make judgements about them.  It's a good topic for discussion and we'd welcome comments on it. 

I guess my initial reaction would be to raise the issues on the appropriate forum (Micro or Saltwater) and have the discussion there. 

I should probably clarify that the same rules really do apply to Micro and Saltwater - but Andy and I can't enforce them.  We don't have the time or expertise, and squinting at hundreds of pictures of tiny minnows make both of us want to strange ourselves with a spool of powerpro. If somebody else wanted to be in charge of that, we could discuss the idea of creating a moderator/overlord account for them to use to take care of that.. 

Cast_and_Blast
Cast_and_Blast's picture
I think this is a good idea.

I think this is a good idea.

 

I am actually quite anal about my ID's because I want integrity in my lifelist.  I have all my difficult ones confirmed by experts in the field.  Dr. Maurice Kottelot (author of Fishes of Laos) confirmed all my tough catches in Asia.  I even get my tough micros confirmed by experts.   Species like the Channel Shiner which is almost identical to the Mimic Shiner, I'm not even going to try.  Read John Lyons book on IDing a Channel Shiner.  Really tough.

 

I found many experts in Ichthyology to be very willing to help out but I'm sure to do my own homework first and try to nail down the ID myself before I ask for their confirmation.  The last thing I want to do is overwhelm someone willing to help me out who has the expertise.  I have also been able to provide helpful information in return sometimes. 

Corey
Corey's picture
Using experts

I understand, but if everybody relied on experts for their ID's like you do, then you kill the sport.  John Lyons might be very helpful to you, but he's going to be less helpful once he starts dealing with thousands of crappy photos of minnows from hundreds of people.  It's a good solution for YOU but not a good solution for the entire angling community.  It has no relevence for actually creating a real sport out of it, where everybody can participate.  Identification by experts is helpful for creating a reproducable protocol for laymen to identify the fish, but it isn't a solution for the long term. That's what we're working toward here.

Cast_and_Blast
Cast_and_Blast's picture
Yeah, that is exactly the

Yeah, that is exactly the reason I don't want to overload these helpful people. 

 

Good photos are the key and multiple pics are necessary to confirm certain species.  As for micro pics, most people have trouble using the macro settings on their cameras and end up with a sucky blurry picture.  Speaking of micros, it would be nice to have some good quality pics for the layman to use to compare to, say in the species section.  We could compile the best pics out there regarding these species.  I mean even in technical books, some of my pics are better than theirs because I have live fish rather than a dead specimen pic.

Corey
Corey's picture
Dead on

Most of the identification keys for scientists to use are based on identifying dead fish pickled in formalin.  Not much use to fishermen. 

Every fish can have a species page.  At one point last year I gave you the security settings for "Species Author" so you could fill in species pages, but unfortunately I screwed it up so the "Species Author"/moderator role was missing some key user settings.

So I just switched you back to "user" so you could use the site.  I could turn that back on if you're willing.  Then authorized users could upload clear pics and explanatory text.  But it might still require some debugging.  I'm game for that if you are.

Dr Flathead
Dr Flathead's picture
I'd be game to help out there

I'd be game to help out there too, along with C&B. 

TonyS
TonyS's picture
I'd certainly volunteer some

I'd certainly love  to volunteer some time - especially over the winter - to flesh out some of those species pages.  Especially those that I've put loads of "research" into...

Jknuth
Jknuth's picture
I also would be game.

I also would be game.
Sounds like fun on those cold days

Corey
Corey's picture
OK guys, you're set up

To do a species overview, click "Add Species Overview" to the left.  You then must add a title, main species image, and overview.  The rest is optional - you can add images and text for habitat, description, and tactics.  The "details" section can be an extra info.  If you wish to add more images, you can load them into a gallery and put them in the details (or one of the other text areas).  You can also add a range map if you like.  I can give you guys my map template if you want it.  After having at least a title, main image, and overview, click "Save".  From there, it should automatically show up under Species - with an "Edit" link at the top if you have the right settings. 

Try it out, and let me know if anything isn't working.

JKnuth, Cast_and_Blast, Hengelaar, TonyS, and Dr. Flathead are currently set up as "Species Authors" which should allow you to do this.

Conecuh
Conecuh's picture
Useful Thumbs up/down.

For a little while there was thumbs up or down on some of the content, with the question "Do you like this?"

 

A system like that on the lifelist photos could be a question like "Is this a good photo for identifying the species?" or "Is this photo a good representative of the species?" or  " Could this photo be used to help identify another of it's kind?"

 

The voting would rank the lifelist photos so that the first ones showing up on the species page would be the best photos for IDing.

 

Anyway, just an idea.

Corey
Corey's picture
Good point

I like that idea.

Guys, if you add a species overview pages, let me know so I can check it out!

Corey
Corey's picture
Oh, also

Be sure to put a photo credit in there for pics - it's at the bottom.

Outdoors4life
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Corey that is Great!

Corey that is Great!

 

I think some of the other species pages could use an update too if you are willing to let others add to them such as pics. The eel for instance has so many better pics these days than when it was written.  I look forward to seeing the new content!!!

It is all perspective!

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Cast_and_Blast
Cast_and_Blast's picture
I believe some of the

I believe some of the pictures we have are the best ones out there for the species.  This could really turn into a valuable resource for anyone.  Let's give it a try.

 

Originally, I intended on putting the asian species together nice but I lacked the time to do it.  Maybe now with renewed passion I can get started again with it.

Deftik
Deftik's picture
I favor photos with me and

I favor photos with me and the fish but I have some nicer ones of just the fish and I'm sure others do to perhaps we should start a thread to submit decent photos. 

Corey
Corey's picture
Species Pages

You guys are right - the eel is a perfect example.  

I'll do this.  Once a week, we open a forum topic about a single species that needs a species page update.  Folks post text and pics, and by the end of the week, it gets updated.  We'll call it "Species of the Week". 

Will that work?

Jknuth
Jknuth's picture
Sounds awesome!

Sounds awesome!
here is a question whata bout videos? Does this site have a way to embed videos? 
I have a few of some eel I got in New york and so many of us have been recording our catches in video.

Many of my fish pics are just the fish in laying in a nice locations. I have a few of me but my favorites are without. 
Nobody wants to see me anyway when they could look at an awesome fish.

 

Cast_and_Blast
Cast_and_Blast's picture
I think that's a great idea

I think that's a great idea Corey.  It will take a little work but we should have a nice collection of great info to share. 

 

I agree with Josh.  I would like to see the fish as the focus and not me.  A pic of a fish with an angler on occassion is fine but it should not be overdone.

Outdoors4life
Outdoors4life's picture
every other week

Corey even if it was every 2 weeks it would be more managable for you to maintain or the 1st and the 15th of the month. 24 species updates a year would be good. I just don't want you to burn out on it. I understand the work in those pages.

 

One idea is to have small, average and large of the species since many times they look so different. We have lots of pics between the group.

Even simple species like the white sucker could use a facelift like showing small examples, Eli has a great one on his lifelist of one with the breeding stripe. Or dare I say mine from this sring that was abnormally large. Also lookign through them it really brings more respect to the fish to show an angler happy to have caught one. Some fish look great on the ground when the pic is taken and the fish is clean and wet.

 

This is very exciting! SO many good pics for ID and respect on this site.

It is all perspective!

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Jknuth
Jknuth's picture
Corey as I said before feel

Corey as I said before feel free to use the illustrations I have done as well. just make sure they arent big enough to be totally lifted from the site. I think i gave you a bunch of PNG files for your app.