Could these be mediterranean trout?

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TheHugbot
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Could these be mediterranean trout?
<p>I think I remember Pyro mentioning mediterranean trout (salmo cettii) on a thread, it got me thinking that the trout I caught in italy could be something else. I looked over the pictures and they do seem to look a little odd (loads of parr markings and a bit pale.), I did a little research and it seems there are lots of brown trout subspecies and simular species.</p> <p>so what are these? something special or just plain ol&#39; brown trout?&nbsp;</p> <p>(please excuse the ipod pics, I had wrecked my camera at this point.)</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><img src="https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?saduie=AG9B_P-U0bYZ3QWUGGYZVyco8BIk&amp;attid=0.1&amp;disp=emb&amp;view=att&amp;th=139cb3bb19581901" /></p> <p><img src="https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?saduie=AG9B_P-U0bYZ3QWUGGYZVyco8BIk&amp;attid=0.1&amp;disp=emb&amp;view=att&amp;th=139c10add89b71ad" /></p> <p><img src="https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?saduie=AG9B_P-U0bYZ3QWUGGYZVyco8BIk&amp;attid=0.1&amp;disp=emb&amp;view=att&amp;th=139c108de6e8368b" /></p>
Ken
Pics not showing up on my end

Pics not showing up on my end Hugbot. Can't wait to see these pictures of yours. smiley

TheHugbot
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Hmmmm, they're showing up for

Hmmmm, they're showing up for me, I'll try to make a gallery and link them to here.

TheHugbot
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I finaly managed to get them

I finaly managed to get them on photobucket, here goes...  

 

 

 

Jknuth
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I would love to see more info

I would love to see more info on the Europeon trout species. 
I know there are a few. Marble trout are amazing looking beasts. 
These look like fairly typical young brown trout to me, but here in the US typical brown trout are a 200 year old blend of many of the subspecies. Its like comparing a Shitzu to a Wolf

 

TheHugbot
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who would have thought IDing

who would have thought IDing a trout could be so confusing! apparently the brown trout is sometimes split into over 50 species/subspecies, the reason I'm not sure if these are ordinary browns is that they are well within the range of salmo cettii, and they look slightly odd with the long head and relatively large mouth.

the pyromaniac
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I don't remember mentioning
I don't remember mentioning Mediterranean trout, but no matter... Give me a little time to research this... I'm at work and the white people are hungry! @Josh, I've got Ohrid trout an hour and a half from me. If I can figure out where & how to catch them, you should come down!

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

the pyromaniac
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@Hugo, PM me some info on the
@Hugo, PM me some info on the location of the catch (drainage, etc). That will help.

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

the pyromaniac
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I've got a few minutes' break
I've got a few minutes' break and I've been looking into this. I'm leaning toward Salmo non-trutta here!

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

the pyromaniac
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OK, so..... Here we go. I
OK, so..... Here we go. I also thought the head was a little different. You had told me via PM that you were headed to the southern part of Italy. Salmo trutta seems to be concentrated (whether native or stocked) in the northern part of the country, in and around the Alps. Mediterranean trout, as the name would suggest, are cconcentrated mostly in central/southern Italy and the island of Sardinia. My preliminary finding is this: Congratulations on a probably lifer!

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

TheHugbot
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this is the best source I

this is the best source I have been able to find, the key features all seem to match up.

http://www.ittiofauna.org/provinciarezzo/fauna_ittica/Schede/schedespecie/trotamacrostigma.htm

 

Ken
Hey Hugbot,

Hey Hugbot,

 

That was the only link I found. There was a reference posted on FishBase for a book or guide (I think) containing the fish species, but I couldn't find a copy on the net. It pointed to the same people studying the fish though.

 

To me it is still a little hard to tell, since the ones you caugth were smaller, likely juveniles which would have parr marks. If they were bigger, mature fish with parr marks, I would say they are probably Mediterranean. Since you caught them within the range, they are most likely Mediterranean (as long as there were no stocking of non-native fish in the stream you caught them)...and I would feel at least somewhat safe to call them as Mediterranean. If not, then all bets are off...for me anyways.

 

@Jknuth - yeah, Marble Trout are rad! smiley

 

 

TheHugbot
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Thanks ken, I don't think any

Thanks ken, I don't think any brownies would have been stocked into this stream since it doesn't get fished that much and the only spot were fishing is practiced regularly and stocking may take place is several obstacles below, fish can only travel downstream of these. so I'm happy to call it a lifer.

Thanks again for all your help guys!

the pyromaniac
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From what I've been able to
From what I've been able to piece together, the nearest stocking of Salmo trutta is several hundred miles away from the drainage where these fish were caught. They're concentrated in the northern tip of Italy around the Alpps, while these fish were caught in central/almost southern Italy, where Mediterranean trout are concentrated. Between that and the shape of the head & mouth being subtly different from what we know as the brown trout, I am about 98% sure we can call this one a lifer!

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

TheHugbot
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Yay! This means that every

Yay! This means that every fish I caught in Italy was a lifer! This is more than I had ever hoped for, I didn't even know Mediterranean trout existed until now! 

the pyromaniac
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It's a good thing you got
It's a good thing you got pics!

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

the pyromaniac
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According to the Wikipedia
According to the Wikipedia article on the Salmo genus, there are currently 40 recognized species in said genus. Hugo & Hengelaar, y'all European boys gotta get to work!

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

TheHugbot
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Marbled trout is definately a

Marbled trout is definately a realistic target for me, I think they are native to the part of Italy that I visit.

TheHugbot
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I just looked marbled trout

I just looked marbled trout up and they are actually in the river I fish, that would explain some of the odd looking trout I saw from a bridge in porretta terme, I have seen some people fishing there but I think you need the permission of the group that control that section of the river, maybe I can see if I can fish it and tick another species off the list.

the pyromaniac
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Do it! When are you going
Do it! When are you going back?

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

TheHugbot
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Most likely August next year,

Most likely August next year, my targets will be marbed trout, southern barbel and also any of the species that I don't get good photos of this year.

the pyromaniac
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You should go for largemouth
You should go for largemouth bass too, I've heard good things about the bass fishing in Italy. I can help you a lot with that species, as I target them often. You'll also really enjoy the pumpkinseed, another American invasive over there.

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

TheHugbot
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I saw some 'seeds in a large

I saw some 'seeds in a large lake there once, I think there are probably some largemouths in there too but I'm not sure i I'll be able to fish it since it is quite a long way away and not much of a family day out. but you never knoe, I may get the chance.

the pyromaniac
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There's largemouths all over
There's largemouths all over Europe. I know they're in Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Greece, and Austria at least.

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

TheHugbot
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its just a shame theres none

its just a shame theres none in England! angry

the pyromaniac
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They're a pain in the rump of
They're a pain in the rump of an invasive when they're put where they don't belong. They're fun, but they get out of control and eat all the natives.....

 

 

 

Let there be fire!

TheHugbot
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Yeah, we've had a few

Yeah, we've had a few predatory fish introduced from mainland europe, the wels catfish and the zander. can't complain really, they're good sport and don't have too much of an impact on native fish stocks. (the wels catfish mostly lives in lakes where the stocking level of other fish is very high, the zander tends to live in rivers and canals, they can eat a lot of fish but most canals have a lot of stunted roach and rudd for them to gorge themselves on.)

Moose439
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Cool fish Hbot! I had no idea

Cool fish Hbot! I had no idea they exsisted either, lots of intersting info in this thread.