poison carp pill

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Jason E.
Jason E.'s picture
poison carp pill

Read this article today.  I'm not sure whether to feel hopeful or terrified.  I'd be particularly concerned about the "pill" affecting other filter feeders, esp. paddlefish.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_20320441/poison-pill-could-eradic...

I also wonder about the amount of "pills" needed to have any effect at all.  After all, we are talking about billions of gallons of water that would need to be "treated." 

Gunnar
Gunnar's picture
Saw that same article in the

Saw that same article in the Chicago Tribune last week and meant to post it here. Spaced it out completely.

I think it's a cool idea that will probably go completely haywire if they actually try it. Things like this always seem to be well-intentioned mistakes with tons of unforeseen (or foreseen but ignored) consequences. I could see us ending up with strong populations of Asian carp but accidentally poisoning blue suckers or paddlefish to the point of extirpation from the treated waterways. After the fact, someone involved will discover that blue sucker guts contain an enzyme no one had noticed before, which has some chemical property that mimics Asian carp enzymes. The outcry will be short-lived (unless the magic pill decimates walleye or largemouth populations, in which case it will be a federal-level freakout ending with people in jail).

 

Redhorse ID cheatsheets, gars, suckers: moxostoma.com


2019: 16 days fishing 25 species 7 lifers. 2018: 39/40/5 2017: 49/52/14

Jason E.
Jason E.'s picture
invasive vs. invasive

Just read another article about how common carp might be thwarting the advance of zebra mussels in the St. Croix.  Invasive vs. invasive.  The article doesn't elaborate, but it suggests several possibilities for a recent decline in the zebra mussel population, including carp "feasting" on them.

http://www.startribune.com/local/east/146207365.html

 

Tyler W
Implementation

Once again they are heralding a solution that has not been invented yet to solve a problem 20 years old. As you can imagine, I am thrilled

Rotenone is an effective fish poison because it is absorbed through the gills and interferes with basic cell function. Rotenone is a common garden insecticide because it is effective against insects but relatively safe for people. It turns out that rotenone does not absorb into our stomachs like it does into fish gills. So, I was surprised that they wanted to use rotenone in the pellets. Rotenone that is eaten should be less toxic to fish than rotenone disolved in water. 

And, obviously, if it can break down in a fish stomach then it must be organic... and that means it will break down eventually. And, it will release its poison somewhere. I don't see how they will get around that. 

There are so many complicating factors before this could be effective. If you have a pellet that releases rotenone in a carp stomach... then you need to pour enough rotenone pellets to kill thousands of pounds of fish into a river, plus the number of pellets that won't get eaten, plus a correction for the reduced effectiveness of the rotenone. If you make the pellets sink you know they will stay closer to the site... but if you make them suspend they fish will have more time to eat them. So then the uneaten pellets end up somewhere and start to break down.

And lets face it, rotenone hasn't been that effective at solving the carp problems we already have.  But, if they work it out so that they can kill some carp with out harming other aquatic life then it might be part of the "tool box" of asian carp managment. But, that is a pretty big IF. 

Ken
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Ken
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Bubbajoe
Bubbajoe's picture
I had the thought of using

I had the thought of using "the Market" as a potential part of invasive management, but the more I think of it several huge problems have come to mind I think need to be addressed. We're talking about utilizing an industry that's on it death bed. It's great that this can be seen as an opportunity to carry on the family business, create jobs, etc. But what happens then if things are successful and the Asian Carp populations do crash? Do we expect the now booming fisheries to pack up quitetly and move on? Now that these invasive are intertwined with peoples livelihood's does this not foretell the recasting of these invasives as species targeted for eradication, to one who's management is critical to survival as a way of life? More over if such an industry does take off and boom, then the worst possible incentives for the carps intentional spread will boom with it.

Now I believe that bulk removal of these fish is going to be part of the solution should one ever be found. I want people to have jobs and think that its great that a silver linning can be found in all of this. But I remain hesitant to endorse commercial fishing as the as the prime solution without some major planning and foresight going in.

Tyler W
Dis-like

I strongly dis-like silver, bighead and black carp. I don't care why they are here - I just want them gone. 

Gunnar
Gunnar's picture
Agreed. I'm still having a

Agreed. I'm still having a hard time liking--or accepting the presence of--common or grass carp, and I can't see how I could ever accept the others, no matter how long they're around (I assume it'll be forever).

 

Redhorse ID cheatsheets, gars, suckers: moxostoma.com


2019: 16 days fishing 25 species 7 lifers. 2018: 39/40/5 2017: 49/52/14

Gunnar
Gunnar's picture
Agreed. I'm still having a

Agreed. I'm still having a hard time liking--or accepting the presence of--common or grass carp, and I can't see how I could ever accept the others, no matter how long they're around (I assume it'll be forever).

 

Redhorse ID cheatsheets, gars, suckers: moxostoma.com


2019: 16 days fishing 25 species 7 lifers. 2018: 39/40/5 2017: 49/52/14

Gunnar
Gunnar's picture
Agreed. I'm still having a

Agreed. I'm still having a hard time liking--or accepting the presence of--common or grass carp, and I can't see how I could ever accept the others, no matter how long they're around (I assume it'll be forever).

 

Redhorse ID cheatsheets, gars, suckers: moxostoma.com


2019: 16 days fishing 25 species 7 lifers. 2018: 39/40/5 2017: 49/52/14