fishingwithpole's two species to be added

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fishingwithpole
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fishingwithpole's two species to be added

Please add Guadalupe bass (Micropterus treculii)

and redspotted sunfish (Lepomis miniatus). Thanks!

FWP

Corey
Corey's picture
OK

Both species added.

fishingwithpole
fishingwithpole's picture
Thanks, Corey.   FWP

Thanks, Corey.

 

FWP

Mud Sunfish
That is an absolutely

That is an absolutely beautiful Guadalupe Bass!  I got one in a Seine on a collectiong trip years ago but it was a juvenile and certianly didn't look like that!  I really need to make another trip to Texas and get one on rod and reel!

I have to disagree with the addition of Redspotted Sunfish to the fish list.  It is not recoginized as a seperate species from Spotted Sunfish in the new edition Peterson Field Guide to Feshwater Fishes of North America because intergrades occur from the Apalachacola basin to the Perdido River basin.  If you are going to recoginize the Redspotted Sunfish as a distinct species, Florida Bass should be recoginized as distinct from Largmouth Bass, Redfin Pickeral as distinct from Grass Pickeral, and most things in Florida should be considered different.

fishingwithpole
fishingwithpole's picture
Ah, that is why redspotted

Ah, that is why redspotted sunfish does not appear in my Peterson Field Guides (1991 edition). I just followed the definition at Texas Freshwater Fishes (http://www.bio.txstate.edu/~tbonner/txfishes/index.htm) and other angler's post (http://bluegillonthefly.blogspot.ca/2011/04/beulah-land.html). Regarding its handling in this site, I will follow the judgment of administrator (Corey). Thanks for your info anyway.

 

FWP

Corey
Corey's picture
My Mistake

Good catch, Mud Sunfish.  Redspotted is indeed a subspecies or morph and doesn't belong on the list.  It should go in as a variety of spotted sunfish. FWP, once you've moved it let me know and I'll drop it as a seperate species.  I would like to use that photo if you don't mind; it would be great to have a photo of that morph on the species page.  Just let me know what you'd like the photo credit to say.

Mud Sunfish
FWP

Yes, it will be up to Cory to decide to recognize it or not.  I just have a stong opinion about this because I am fish taxonomist.

The Redspotted Sunfish does not appear in the first edition of the Peterson Field Guide (1991) because the study that elevated it to full species was published in 1992. This study has always been controversial because the author said they were distinct species but there was a zone hybridization from the Apalachacola basin to the Perdido River basin.  To me this indicates that they are not distinct species and I think the correct decision was made to not recognize it in the new edition of the Peterson Field Guide (2011).

You should get yourself a copy of the new edition of the Peterson Feild Guide.  I has some beautiful new plates and the maps are all new and now show the major Rivers!

Mud Sunfish
Corey

I'm glad you agree with me! I know most people don't care either way but I think it is important.  It would be nice if people could add multiple photos for each species so if they have caught both forms they could show them off.  I just don't think they should count as seperate species. Not sure how difficult it would be for you to program but it is something to think about.

fishingwithpole
fishingwithpole's picture
Corey

OK, I will move redspotted sunfish, and don't mind that you will use the photo. 

 

FWP

Corey
Corey's picture
Mud Sunfish

You can!  I added a "strains, subspecies, and color morphs" field to the lifelist database so you can add all the non-species varieties under the main species!

Corey
Corey's picture
Thanks FWP

You really do some great work with your camera. 

 

And the Redspotted still counts as a spotted sunfish!

Jknuth
Jknuth's picture
What is the word in the

What is the word in the community on Northern sunfish?  Is it a full on new species.
It always seemed so incredibly distinct in both habitat and general apearance. 
I know the new Peterson recognises it.

Corey
Corey's picture
Well

I need to delve into Lepomis megalotis.  I'd like to hear what Mud Sunfish and others think about it, too.

 

I do know that ITIS doesn't recognize it at this point.  It would be nice if we had one authority to represent the consensus on these issues. 

 

 

Jknuth
Jknuth's picture
I am cool with that, it makes

I am cool with that, it makes the most sense to find out for sure.

Mud Sunfish
Northern Sunfish

Although the elevation of Northern Sunfish was done without an in depth study (it was done in the Atlas of Michigan Fishes), as far as I know there are no intergrades between Northern Sunfish and Longear Sunfish so I expect Northern Sunfish to continue to be recoginized as a different species. Lepomis megalotis is a huge taxonomic problem. Several subspecies are described and some should probaly be elevated to full species.  There is an unpublished dissertation on the complex (which includes Lepomis marginatus also) from the 1970's.  Some of the work may finally get published soon but it is far from certain that it will ever be published.