Fall Fishing Tips on the Allegheny

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Divemaster
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Fall Fishing Tips on the Allegheny
<p>Trout fishing is already starting to wind down for the year so it&#39;s time for me to start the fall fishing season on the lower Allegheny River. I plan on fishing at the mouth of my local creek a bit but mainly I&#39;ll be at my friend&#39;s house in the harmarville area (PA) not too far below lock/dam 3. His house is right on the river and he has a private dock that is free of his boats after mid October. Our usual catch is common carp, channel catfish, small rock bass (4-8&quot;), and decent bluegills (6-8&quot;). But we occasionally hook up with a small flathead catfish (12-16&quot;) or decent Drum (12-26&quot;h and on rare occasions, a smallmouth buffalo. I also got a silver redhorse on corn in May but have not seen a single sucker since then (including buffalo). We always fish with bait exclusively (corn and nightcrawlers) down there which is why I think the species we catch are so limited. From now on though, I&#39;d like to mix things up a bit and use more rods, a larger variety of baits, and even cast some lures.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>To give you guys an idea of where I&#39;m fishing. It&#39;s a small wooden dock made to hold a max of three boats (16-20&#39; boats approximately) with a large, deep pool under it that is 8-14&#39; deep. The pool drops off pretty quick from the shore and the substrate (like almost everywhere in the allegheny haha) is silt. The flow isn&#39;t strong but it is present and I would call the area slack water. There are rows of other private docks to the left side of his and to the right side about 50 feet away is a very shallow weed bed (2-12&quot; deep). I&#39;m sure the other docks provide cover for predators and the weedbed holds forage species (attracting predators). Finally, straight out in to the river from the dock is a fairly deep channel (10-15&#39; I believe) with slightly higher flow than four at the dock that continues until it hits a large island halfway across the river. There&#39;s definitely no lack of habitat in the area I&#39;m fishing. The water temp has been holding at 50-52&deg; the last week or so and the water is a bit high but all of that can change suddenly.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>We&#39;re pretty good at catching the carp and channel cats, but outside of that, we only luck in to the other species. Species I&#39;m hoping to catch with consistency from now on are (more) smallmouth buffalo, various redhorse species, (larger) flathead catfish, wipers, longnose gar, musky, and sauger, walleye, or saugeye (I&#39;m really set on trying to get a sauger, though). And like everyone here I&#39;m sure I&#39;d love to someday luck in to a paddlefish but that&#39;s a once in a lifetime deal that most people never get to experience. so I don&#39;t think it&#39;s really possibly to give tips for that species haha.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>So does anyone have any suggestions for good rigs, baits, or lures to use for any of the listed species in a deep (8-14&#39;) slack water pool and the areas within casting distance around it that I listed in the lower Allegheny River?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Thanks once again everyone for all of your help! I can&#39;t think of anywhere else I could get good answers to trying to find better ways to catch a lot of these great, under appreciated species such as redhorse and buffalo!</p> <p>-Sean</p>
Divemaster
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Anyone? I'm fishing the Alleg

Anyone? I'm fishing the Allegheny exclusively in this case, but you have any general big (and murky) river tactics for any of these species, I'm listening.

Corey
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Slack Water

Sounds like you're doing pretty well for the pool area that you are fishing. Most of the suckers you have are going to be in an area with current; they don't tend to hang out in dead water. If you can cast to the throat of the pool, where the water flows in, and carpet-bomb that area with crawlers, you'll have better luck. You can also try the tail. Allegheny is a big river, though, so you might not be able to cast to those areas. Get some bigger sinkers and some long-casting tackle and plonk those baits where the water is moving fastest.

andy
andy's picture
minnows for predators

Fall is a great time to fish with large lively minnows.  I'd get some big shiners - catch them or buy them - and try slip-floats set to just tick bottom and fish it along a current seam.  Real slow deep drift in those deep areas you talk about.  Also try hooking a shiner on a grub type jig and hopping it along the bottom.  You're bound to catch some predators.

 

As far as redhorse, I'd try to find a deep, slow flat or tailout - not a main hole or a bend or pool or riffle, just a wide run.  Late Fall these are good areas as the redhorse stage on their way to deep wintering waters.  Maybe 6-9 feet deep in a river like the Allegheny down there, with current just a little too strong for 1/2 oz of lead to hold.  Bottom rig as many lines as is legal there with nightcrawlers, placing baits all over the place - near shore, far out, and in the middle.  Sometimes suckers will pod up in a particular small spot; if you pinpoint their location you can catch a bunch of fish.

 

Good luck dude!

Divemaster
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Thanks, guys! Looks like I'm

Thanks, guys! Looks like I'm out of luck for redhorse in this area then. The closest fast water is a shallow 18" deep riffle about a mile upstream and some small Ruffles seeveral miles downstream. Which kind of makes this a slow-water fish's paradise (Now I'm seeing why carp and channel cats are the bulk of the catch.). In PA, it's legal to fish with two rods each so the next time my uncle and I go down I'll bring four and set three out with bait (I'll switch over to only crawlers and shiners to help sift through the over abundance of carp) plus use one line for jigs and lures. Anyone think gar or buffs would still be hitting this late in the year?

andy
andy's picture
Cold water gar

If the water is 50°, I wouldn't count on any kind of gar activity.  They shut down for the most part below 65.  Smallmouith buffalo are definitely still in play, as I have seen a lot caught in cold water conditions here in MN.  Moderate current sandy areas might hold a buff or two, and count on crawlers being your best bait option.  Corn is only good for carp, so don't use it if you are looking for redhorse and buffalo.  Just my two cents.

J Dunfee
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The smallmouth buffalo have m

The smallmouth buffalo have moved out of my warm weather spots. Unfortunately, I don't have any cold water spots for them yet. The amount of em lately blows my mind. They were on the "Threatened" list until a few years ago; I used to freak out when I saw one in a pod of carpsuckers, or whatever. Now adults are everywhere. I'm suspicious of a migration or something... guess that's neither here nor there. No real advice from me on that one, just cast a crawler and hope for the best. If we catch a warm spell(ha) maybe try the creek mouth, or dark-bottomed coves near the shoreline that catch a lot of sunlight.

Redhorse... the Allegheny has the most out of the 3 rivers, but downstream that far they're not an abundant fish. If you've only caught one, there's probably a reason. With the way you describe it, it's probably going to hold silvers, and not much else redhorse-wise. That's not to say you'll never catch a golden or smallmouth in there, but the density of redhorse is so low in the 3 rivers... the habitat you describe is silver habitat... and 90% of the redhorse in the lower gheny are silvers to begin with.. odds are just against ya, man. Though the pool you describe is probably more ideal for golden, smallmouth, and river redhorse this time of year than it is when it's warm out. Guess that's the silver lining.

Big flatties may just be a waiting game. There is reading you can do to improve your chances, but if you're determined to stay in the same spot it's prob going to be mostly time spent and luck.

Wipers and musky are hard to target when you're immobile. All you can really do is throw lures and hope for the best.

Too late in the year for gar around here.. hope you prove me wrong! But I can't recall ever catching(or even seeing) a gar in November..

Sauger and Walleye should be a pretty good possibility, but I'm not the greatest at finding or catching either of those. Usually my tactics for em are.. just fish for other stuff and let them find their way to my hook. But there is certainly no shortage of either where you are. Try... jigging in the pool? Sorry, I suck with perch. They just don't really interest me too much.

Guess what I'm trying to say is there is only so much you can do when you're in one spot. Especially in November. I'm not trying to discourage you. Just being realistic. You're going to have to try harder for less fish. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth it. If it were me, I'd pick one or 2 to try to tackle from that spot. It's a little late in the year to spread your efforts out so much with such large limitations, especially when you haven't even had success with a lot of these in the productive months yet...

If it were me, I'd start by throwing musky lures with one rod and tossing a crawler into the pool with another, and try to adapt and try new stuff as I go.. but that's just me. 

Dude, in the spring come hit the rivers with me, I'll get you started on a lot of these.

 

 

Divemaster
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Good to know with the redhors

Good to know with the redhorse, I'm perfectly happy catching silvers too though! For the rest of the year, I'll probably be focusing on musky and walleye/sauger around creek mouths with the cold water. I can catch Carp and cats like crazy in the summer but cold water species just seem to downright avoid the pool at my friend's dock haha. Yeah that sounds good man, I'll shoot you a message in the spring and we can hit one of he rivers sometime, when do you start the majority of your river fishing?

J Dunfee
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I usually start hitting the r

I usually start hitting the rivers hard in June. I'll fish em before that, but there is so much great stuff going on with smaller waters in April and May I focus more on that.

Actually, I've kind of fallen off these past couple years. I haven't been fishing nearly as much as I used to. Going to get back to it next year.

My point with the silvers is there are probably a fair amount that pass through the pool, but I doubt there are enough to target them specifically. Try hitting it in the late AM through early afternoon during warm months, suckers will swell in and out of areas around creek mouths.. and into creek mouths, if they're suitable enough to feed in. That should give you an idea of how many you're working with(not that you'll see ALL of them), as well as some sightfishing targets.

This wouldn't happen to be a dredge pool, would it? That would explain a lot. 

Divemaster
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Not sure if it's a dredge poo

Not sure if it's a dredge pool or not, I'll PM you a picture of around where I fish on a map.

J Dunfee
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I have a map with the dredge
I have a map with the dredge pools marked somewhere. Think it's in the 3 rivers management plan, which is.like 700 pages long . No.time to look really. How.deep,? how silty, what # pool, how.far down in the pool?
Divemaster
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It's the pool below lock 3 an

It's the pool below lock 3 and above lock 2 so I think that would be upper pool 2. The dock I fish on shore drops off quick and is 4-6' on one side and 10-12' on the other side. The channel in the main river is around 15' I believe. How silty: It's all silt! Right where I'm fishing, I haven't been able to find a spec of gravel or sand, it's all just settled silt and various debris here and there like logs and trees. There might be a bit of dirt along the shoreline, but not much. Guess this is starting to come together why we only catch common carp and channel cats...

J Dunfee
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yaaaa.. I'll chek into whethe

yaaaa.. I'll chek into whether it's a dredge pool or not. But really that's kind of irrelevant, it's dredge-poolly either way. Sounds like you just need to find some different spots to be effective with suckers.. 

andy
andy's picture
I've enjoyed this thread

Feel like I've learned a little bit about your guy's fishing spot.  Divemaster, I hope you get some good fishing in there in the Spring!